I've been offering the same diagnoses as you since he first ran for President, explaining to questioners that--as a neuropsychologist--I have no need to abide by your APA'S "rule." I'm now quite elderly and retired long ago, though I do make comments now and then. Thank you for continuing this very important series of diagnostic explanations.
It’s amazing to me just how far trump has gotten!! I knew him years ago in New Jersey when he ruined many many people’s lives and businesses… and walked away to file bankruptcy after directing those folks to do his bidding with some of the most expensive and costly trappings … where some of the owners took on the costs themselves to their demise!! So it is beyond me to say how this has continued with those who certainly knew better to assist and ignore the consequences of trumps actions to a fault !! Those folks in New Jersey are still remembering and I’m sure many more will before it’s over.. however I don’t think “ greed “ will ever be more prevalent than it is today .. it seems to be at the core of the movement… even if you say “he’s crazy” … I would add “ like a fox?…ehh?”
Thank you Dr. Lee. I believe that there are very few in Congress that doubt that djt is failing and is a danger. Unfortunately, all too many seem to feel that the danger is to themselves and are afraid to act so they acquiesce. If only all of those who quietly and secretly admit to trump's danger would band together--and how can we get them to do that? Many voices in the right places and the actions that necessarily follow could provide a relief and then the nightmare that we are in could crumble. I have read the transcript from his Quantico speech and he is definitely mad and there is no way to sugar-coat the spectacle he made of himself.
I agree- if the entire Congress would stand up together and admit the craziness, there would be nothing he could do to but resign or be impeached. Then we could go back to having different ideology but keeping “we the people” in the game plan. Now, it’s all about the greed & power at the top- the USA is becoming a joke that isn’t funny at all!!!
I agree and also with Ms. Edelstein replying to you. The problem is what I've regarded as Trumpism "gangster/cult." Those Republicans are so afraid of the message the Trump people send, which is consistent with their thuggish ways (both the leaders and many of the followers/voters). It's like warnings from organized crime bosses, because any peep of opposition is now so thoroughly punished.
I think you should keep speaking up loudly and clearly and don't stop.. But you don't have to stoop to their level. Although you are definitely entitled to it if that's the message you are going for.
I get the comment, Problem is that as soon as you say:I've regarded Trumpism as "gangster/cult." Those Republicans… I think you sound fruity. It doesn't sound professional, it sounds like a catty diagnosis. Although, I'm definitely all for you banding together to gain traction.
As a clinical psychologist (B.A., M.A., Psy.D.) who'd practiced for 30+ years and have both used and taught the diagnostic rule book (DSM-5) , I *am* an expert, especially in group psychology and psychopathology. I fully agree with Dr. Lee and Dr. Hassan (experts on criminal behavior and cults).
I think he will die or be disabled before your book is published. So you might change the title to use “Trumpism” in place of his name. This problem is way beyond one man now.
Agreed 111%, there, Stan. Trump is spiralling out of control. Vance is worse. Vought, Miller, Hegseth, Noem, et al. are no more than senior administrators in a fascist régime. Trump reminds me Mussolini and Vance of Reinhardt Heydrich.
Agreed. Dr Lee has been arguing that there is a contagion running through the Trump base. We have to hearken to the national symbol. In one talon of the eagle, one sees arrows: no mercy for Trump, Vance, other fascist leaders, and violent members of the base.
Pity can follow later after these people are consigned to the great dust-bin of history. In the other talon, one sees the olive branch: conciliation toward a large chunk of the American voting electorate currently fed up with, and alienated by, republicanism.
I think the American Psychiatric Association has, like so many other professional organizations, ceased to be a legitimate sanctioning institution sometime ago. The APA forfeited its right to be considered as anything other than a political tool of Trump coincident with its decision to capitulate to him by perverting the ridiculous "Goldwater Rule" and using it to "discipline" you.
Something similar has happened in my profession, the legal profession, when governing bodies (like The Florida Bar) have done the converse by ceasing to discipline its members for obvious unethical behavior. That happened in June when 70 lawyers (including two former chief justices of the Florida Supreme Court) filed an airtight ethics complaint against Pam Bondi only to see it dismissed one day after filing by a fictitious "rule" that the Bar pulled directly out of its ass.
Like Trump, I think these people are sociopaths, or else they have no problem electing or supporting and enabling a sociopath, in which case there's really no difference.
I agree. Dr Lee has paid a heavy price. her courage and humility never fail to astonish me. I would be around the bend by now were I in her shoes.
EDIT P.S., thank you, Sir, for fighting the good fight against the totalitarian termites eating away, unseen and often undetected, the joists and beams of the structure underlying the rule-of-law.
As a retired clinical psychologist with 40+ years experience, my diagnosis would be Narcissistic Personality Disorder with Antisocial features. There may be some Axis 1 mood disorder issues as well as Axis 3 challenges, but I am not completely clear on those right now. I do know that when you are referred a patient like Trump, other then containment and limit setting, there is not much you can do since the primary instrument of psychotherapy, a real relationship, is not possible with such people.
Also as a psychologist, I'm summing it up as "Cluster B" personality disorder, which would have remote onset. A recent onset of neurocognitive disorder (formerly called dementia) could be added now.
Very scarey. Sounding like rules of engagement to employ lethal force against American citizens. Jimmy Kimmel nailed it with the racist A.I. or pic. with Minority Leader Jeffries in a sombrero. He said something like, "At least get your racism straight . . . snurd."
Again and again, Dr. Lee is trying to tell people the "emperor has no clothes!" Here is so much appreciated again from her but also so very frustrating about Dr. Lee and other professionals being kept from sending this message through many media outlets. This week, I saw and heard the mayor of Chicago--a major U.S. city--calling for the 25th Amendment. Other commentators have been clearly wondering aloud if Trump is unfit because of his behavior, and it got me to asking myself, "Is water wet?" About diagnosing him, I'll still consider the DSM-5 rule for "Cluster B" personality disorder, with selections from those four classifications (antisocial, narcissistic, histrionic, and borderline). (A good description can be found in Wikipedia.) It would be something with "remote onset"--having developed over a long time. Perhaps now may be added something with "recent onset"--dementia, or what is now termed neurocognitive disorder. This utterly bizarre situation is a testament to "fooling some of the people--enough voters--all of the time" through messages of fear, anger and greed. I can only hope that Dr. Lee's efforts will reach more people, including through that upcoming book.
You're welcome. As a psychologist when I was in clinical practice, I used the DSM, and I've taught it at a medical college. The DSM (now 5th ed.) isn't perfect (what is?) and clearly advises professionals to be very careful with using it *along with their clinical judgment* (that a lot of critics don't realize). The personality disorder clusters (A, B, and C) were developed to help organize signs/symptoms that overlap between diagnostic classifications. Difficulties with diagnosing psychiatric/behavioral disorders arise because of almost no "biomarkers" or physical evidence of them (such as blood texts, x-rays, etc.) So, careful use of behavioral criteria is very important. (Later DSM editions transitioned away from using psychodynamic theory toward using behavioral evidence, which has greatly enhanced clarity and accuracy because of measurability through statistics in survey research--which is why the manual is called "Statistical" along with Diagnostic). Trump is almost certainly narcissistic, but "Cluster B" also includes the antisocial type that Dr. Lee has highlighted (along with his drama--histrionic type--and the emotional dysregulation features of borderline type). The apparent "dementia" signs that are emerging further allow for both recent as well as remote onset of disorder. These are very well-known diagnostic-related terms within the behavioral professions. Survive!
Well, I thank you Dr Hahn. Your thoughtful explanation gives me an orientation on how to interpret other comments. I have, if you do not mind, copied-&-pasted your reply into my MS-Word notebook, so I can refer to it and use your explanation as a guide to further research.
My big hang-up is a hunch that Vance is even worse than Trump.
It's fine about taking the information--it's public knowledge about the rule anyway. I agree mostly about Vance, thinking what's worse? Fully cognitive intact slimy viciousness or demented slimy viciousness? What a choice!
When confronted by perilous mental pathology in a person who wields great power over the lives of millions, if not billions, of fellow human beings, the signal, supervening reality and question of how to respond exigently becomes a moral one, for without moral introspection and collective moral action, the role of expertise -- psychiatric or otherwise -- is neutralized and nullified, leading inexorably to the tragedy of destruction, death and debility.
I regret missing your insights, Ken, until now. That moral responsibility of (at least to try) undoing the deep disease in the body politic weighs on every one of us.
I have read that during doctor evaluations patients will deny their activities and that observations are more accurate. We are all seeing Trump display his cruelty as his actions lead to more needless deaths.
The most important part of the article —- “(He) would never pass the psychological testing that all persons with any control over nuclear weapons must pass yearly….”
Since science has discovered/advanced in the issues of Neuro-biology since the Goldwater Rule existed in early 70's, why would the APA and other ruling systems following OUTDATED sources/"rules"/principles/protocols when it comes to the mental health of the most powerful leaders? Brain scanners HAVE MERIT even if they're "not perfect" & TELE-HEALTH is now the accepted norm for those who cannot get physically in front of a person experiencing mental health crisis, etc. WHO ARE THEY KIDDING? THE APA IS GOING AGAINST PROVEN SCIENCE-FACT & MENTAL HEALTH LAWS THEMSELVES!
Good points. Were President Jefferson or Madison alive today, he would say, "Oh do not get so hung up on precedents. Stupid traditions ossify republican *virtue."
I've been offering the same diagnoses as you since he first ran for President, explaining to questioners that--as a neuropsychologist--I have no need to abide by your APA'S "rule." I'm now quite elderly and retired long ago, though I do make comments now and then. Thank you for continuing this very important series of diagnostic explanations.
It’s amazing to me just how far trump has gotten!! I knew him years ago in New Jersey when he ruined many many people’s lives and businesses… and walked away to file bankruptcy after directing those folks to do his bidding with some of the most expensive and costly trappings … where some of the owners took on the costs themselves to their demise!! So it is beyond me to say how this has continued with those who certainly knew better to assist and ignore the consequences of trumps actions to a fault !! Those folks in New Jersey are still remembering and I’m sure many more will before it’s over.. however I don’t think “ greed “ will ever be more prevalent than it is today .. it seems to be at the core of the movement… even if you say “he’s crazy” … I would add “ like a fox?…ehh?”
Thank you Dr. Lee. I believe that there are very few in Congress that doubt that djt is failing and is a danger. Unfortunately, all too many seem to feel that the danger is to themselves and are afraid to act so they acquiesce. If only all of those who quietly and secretly admit to trump's danger would band together--and how can we get them to do that? Many voices in the right places and the actions that necessarily follow could provide a relief and then the nightmare that we are in could crumble. I have read the transcript from his Quantico speech and he is definitely mad and there is no way to sugar-coat the spectacle he made of himself.
I agree- if the entire Congress would stand up together and admit the craziness, there would be nothing he could do to but resign or be impeached. Then we could go back to having different ideology but keeping “we the people” in the game plan. Now, it’s all about the greed & power at the top- the USA is becoming a joke that isn’t funny at all!!!
I agree and also with Ms. Edelstein replying to you. The problem is what I've regarded as Trumpism "gangster/cult." Those Republicans are so afraid of the message the Trump people send, which is consistent with their thuggish ways (both the leaders and many of the followers/voters). It's like warnings from organized crime bosses, because any peep of opposition is now so thoroughly punished.
I think you should keep speaking up loudly and clearly and don't stop.. But you don't have to stoop to their level. Although you are definitely entitled to it if that's the message you are going for.
I get the comment, Problem is that as soon as you say:I've regarded Trumpism as "gangster/cult." Those Republicans… I think you sound fruity. It doesn't sound professional, it sounds like a catty diagnosis. Although, I'm definitely all for you banding together to gain traction.
As a clinical psychologist (B.A., M.A., Psy.D.) who'd practiced for 30+ years and have both used and taught the diagnostic rule book (DSM-5) , I *am* an expert, especially in group psychology and psychopathology. I fully agree with Dr. Lee and Dr. Hassan (experts on criminal behavior and cults).
Sometimes, I wonder whether Trump (perhaps via Putin) has a pic. of each of these leading Republicans (e.g., Mikey Mouse) with a goat.
It's like old, Ned, here doing the same thing but in “another” style. I would love to take you all seriously but I can't while it all sounds so Gross
I think he will die or be disabled before your book is published. So you might change the title to use “Trumpism” in place of his name. This problem is way beyond one man now.
Agreed 111%, there, Stan. Trump is spiralling out of control. Vance is worse. Vought, Miller, Hegseth, Noem, et al. are no more than senior administrators in a fascist régime. Trump reminds me Mussolini and Vance of Reinhardt Heydrich.
Yeah, it's an elderly white man's disease. Anyone over the age of 68 should not be allowed in such a position of power!
They should be enjoying their retirement
Thank you! We can all see him rotting before our eyes. He would not even be allowed to have car keys! And we are all trapped in this crazy ride.
His close advisers, cabinet & party are just as pathological as he.
Agreed. Dr Lee has been arguing that there is a contagion running through the Trump base. We have to hearken to the national symbol. In one talon of the eagle, one sees arrows: no mercy for Trump, Vance, other fascist leaders, and violent members of the base.
Pity can follow later after these people are consigned to the great dust-bin of history. In the other talon, one sees the olive branch: conciliation toward a large chunk of the American voting electorate currently fed up with, and alienated by, republicanism.
Thank you, Dr. Lee. We are indeed living in a nightmare scenario.
I think the American Psychiatric Association has, like so many other professional organizations, ceased to be a legitimate sanctioning institution sometime ago. The APA forfeited its right to be considered as anything other than a political tool of Trump coincident with its decision to capitulate to him by perverting the ridiculous "Goldwater Rule" and using it to "discipline" you.
Something similar has happened in my profession, the legal profession, when governing bodies (like The Florida Bar) have done the converse by ceasing to discipline its members for obvious unethical behavior. That happened in June when 70 lawyers (including two former chief justices of the Florida Supreme Court) filed an airtight ethics complaint against Pam Bondi only to see it dismissed one day after filing by a fictitious "rule" that the Bar pulled directly out of its ass.
Like Trump, I think these people are sociopaths, or else they have no problem electing or supporting and enabling a sociopath, in which case there's really no difference.
I agree. Dr Lee has paid a heavy price. her courage and humility never fail to astonish me. I would be around the bend by now were I in her shoes.
EDIT P.S., thank you, Sir, for fighting the good fight against the totalitarian termites eating away, unseen and often undetected, the joists and beams of the structure underlying the rule-of-law.
As a retired clinical psychologist with 40+ years experience, my diagnosis would be Narcissistic Personality Disorder with Antisocial features. There may be some Axis 1 mood disorder issues as well as Axis 3 challenges, but I am not completely clear on those right now. I do know that when you are referred a patient like Trump, other then containment and limit setting, there is not much you can do since the primary instrument of psychotherapy, a real relationship, is not possible with such people.
Also as a psychologist, I'm summing it up as "Cluster B" personality disorder, which would have remote onset. A recent onset of neurocognitive disorder (formerly called dementia) could be added now.
“Training grounds,” sombrero memes, and saying Dems are the “party of Satan:"
Our country is now a “training ground” for psychological warfare
https://sunmoonlight.substack.com/p/training-grounds-sombrero-memes-and
Very scarey. Sounding like rules of engagement to employ lethal force against American citizens. Jimmy Kimmel nailed it with the racist A.I. or pic. with Minority Leader Jeffries in a sombrero. He said something like, "At least get your racism straight . . . snurd."
Thank you so much Dr Lee for your ongoing efforts.
Very much appreciated.
From Australia.
✔✔ 💙 …🦘🦘🦘
We need our friends . . . desperately.
Again and again, Dr. Lee is trying to tell people the "emperor has no clothes!" Here is so much appreciated again from her but also so very frustrating about Dr. Lee and other professionals being kept from sending this message through many media outlets. This week, I saw and heard the mayor of Chicago--a major U.S. city--calling for the 25th Amendment. Other commentators have been clearly wondering aloud if Trump is unfit because of his behavior, and it got me to asking myself, "Is water wet?" About diagnosing him, I'll still consider the DSM-5 rule for "Cluster B" personality disorder, with selections from those four classifications (antisocial, narcissistic, histrionic, and borderline). (A good description can be found in Wikipedia.) It would be something with "remote onset"--having developed over a long time. Perhaps now may be added something with "recent onset"--dementia, or what is now termed neurocognitive disorder. This utterly bizarre situation is a testament to "fooling some of the people--enough voters--all of the time" through messages of fear, anger and greed. I can only hope that Dr. Lee's efforts will reach more people, including through that upcoming book.
Thank you for and accessible explanation; that really helps me.
You're welcome. As a psychologist when I was in clinical practice, I used the DSM, and I've taught it at a medical college. The DSM (now 5th ed.) isn't perfect (what is?) and clearly advises professionals to be very careful with using it *along with their clinical judgment* (that a lot of critics don't realize). The personality disorder clusters (A, B, and C) were developed to help organize signs/symptoms that overlap between diagnostic classifications. Difficulties with diagnosing psychiatric/behavioral disorders arise because of almost no "biomarkers" or physical evidence of them (such as blood texts, x-rays, etc.) So, careful use of behavioral criteria is very important. (Later DSM editions transitioned away from using psychodynamic theory toward using behavioral evidence, which has greatly enhanced clarity and accuracy because of measurability through statistics in survey research--which is why the manual is called "Statistical" along with Diagnostic). Trump is almost certainly narcissistic, but "Cluster B" also includes the antisocial type that Dr. Lee has highlighted (along with his drama--histrionic type--and the emotional dysregulation features of borderline type). The apparent "dementia" signs that are emerging further allow for both recent as well as remote onset of disorder. These are very well-known diagnostic-related terms within the behavioral professions. Survive!
Well, I thank you Dr Hahn. Your thoughtful explanation gives me an orientation on how to interpret other comments. I have, if you do not mind, copied-&-pasted your reply into my MS-Word notebook, so I can refer to it and use your explanation as a guide to further research.
My big hang-up is a hunch that Vance is even worse than Trump.
It's fine about taking the information--it's public knowledge about the rule anyway. I agree mostly about Vance, thinking what's worse? Fully cognitive intact slimy viciousness or demented slimy viciousness? What a choice!
Not even a choice of the lesser of two evils. Evil-dumb or evil-(J.)D.
It’s not just Trump who needs this long deserved diagnosis. Please address falling under the spell of MAGA as a pathology.
Hope Project 2025ers and MAGA supporters join Dr. Bandi Lee in her 13 week class and seminar and will read her latest book and videos.
When confronted by perilous mental pathology in a person who wields great power over the lives of millions, if not billions, of fellow human beings, the signal, supervening reality and question of how to respond exigently becomes a moral one, for without moral introspection and collective moral action, the role of expertise -- psychiatric or otherwise -- is neutralized and nullified, leading inexorably to the tragedy of destruction, death and debility.
I regret missing your insights, Ken, until now. That moral responsibility of (at least to try) undoing the deep disease in the body politic weighs on every one of us.
I have read that during doctor evaluations patients will deny their activities and that observations are more accurate. We are all seeing Trump display his cruelty as his actions lead to more needless deaths.
The most important part of the article —- “(He) would never pass the psychological testing that all persons with any control over nuclear weapons must pass yearly….”
Since science has discovered/advanced in the issues of Neuro-biology since the Goldwater Rule existed in early 70's, why would the APA and other ruling systems following OUTDATED sources/"rules"/principles/protocols when it comes to the mental health of the most powerful leaders? Brain scanners HAVE MERIT even if they're "not perfect" & TELE-HEALTH is now the accepted norm for those who cannot get physically in front of a person experiencing mental health crisis, etc. WHO ARE THEY KIDDING? THE APA IS GOING AGAINST PROVEN SCIENCE-FACT & MENTAL HEALTH LAWS THEMSELVES!
Good points. Were President Jefferson or Madison alive today, he would say, "Oh do not get so hung up on precedents. Stupid traditions ossify republican *virtue."